OT-XP-12 Step Groups -AA, OA, etc- Pros and Cons

I've seen several comments on these groups (not just here on OH) lately. There seem to be some "cons" to them, which I had never thought of.  I've seen people have basically positive experiences, but I know a few who've been "burned" - just figured everything wasn't for everybody.  Now I'm curious - if you are/have been/know anything about the 12 step programs, what do you think?  And most importantly, why do  you think it?

Thanks for ANY input - good or bad.  I am truly curious.

 I think a LOT of people are helped by these groups but they are not for me.

although I have Binge Eating Disorder and consider myself addicted to certain eating behaviors (not to food, as some people do) I think the worst thing I could do is "admit I am powerless" over food as OA would expect me to do as a first step.

I think the opposite is true, at least this is what works for me, the very best attitude I can take is that I am POWERFUL - I am fully responsible and I decide what I eat and when.

but I only speak for myself, I realize that.  I also have a problem with the fact that AA has given atheist AA groups a lot of grief. I am not an atheist but they should have the right to organize around their own beliefs.

 Drawbacks to NA  (Shove OA in here... AA... )

1. neglects the physical. No medical advice or info on healing.
2. requires social involvement. Some people get nervous or uncomfortable in groups.
3.  requires a specific religious belief. A higher power must be acknowledged. Six of the twelve steps refer to God or Higher Power.
4. insists that you call, yourself an addict. You are not allowed to speak unless you first say, "Hello, my name is ______ and I'm an addict."
5. Many people have difficulty with the "public confessional" approach.
   After awhile it gets tedious hearing the "War Stories" 
   "The worst thing I did on drugs." 
   "How bad an addict I was."
    "How much I wanted to use today." 
   "How terrible I felt." 
   "Let me tell you about my years in the penitentiary."
6. NA fosters too much dependency among its s. Trading one drug for another. You no longer depend on drugs but on NA.
7. For NA s, drugs remain the central focus in their lives.
8. NA s believe that you're powerless over your addiction.
9. NA takes a great deal of time. Meetings are usually from one to two hours long. Consider travel and prep time. A meeting could consume three hours easily. Many s are prompted to attend ninety meetings in ninety days.

I disagree with their spiritual concept, but I know AA is a good program for alkies. I think OA is just a cult for those with a guilty, Jeudo-Christian conscious who want to loathe in guilt and shame and blame themselves for their food problems.

 I know OA is helpful for a lot of people.  I was active years ago and it helped me lose 80 pounds and keep it off for 10 years.  Started gaining again when I moved out of state and didn't reconnect in my new state.  That being said, I don't find it a good fit now unless it is a Buddhist approach -- which we have here in these parts.  There are a number of wonderful books on Buddhism and the 12 steps, and those really opened a space in my heart to get back to practicing the 12 steps in a way that fits me now.  

I've been in a 12 program for 7 years, 2 months and 1 day. I have tried EVERYTHING else to stop drinking and using. Started off fun and ended up with 1/2 gallon of whiskey a day and 90 pills a day. I was gonna die in that last rehab and I knew it. I tried church, I tried therapy, I tried SMART recovery blah blah blah and I always ended up in 12 step groups.

Nowhere in our literature does it say that meetings are gonna keep you sober - they say that God (or YOUR higher power) will do it ....and that we're beyond human aid. I used the group as my god for a long time, they were certainly staying sober when I couldn't. Then it felt funny to pray to a group so after a few years I ended up using "whatever is making the wind" - good enough for me. They don't even use the word "sponsor" in the book. The Big Book was written and is full of practical information - that leads to a spiritual solution. I see atheists everywhere I go in meetings and nobody gives them ****

I go to meetings now, to mainly help others. I try to live my life based on 12 spiritual principles (1 for each step) and my life is better. I try to stay out of personalities - everyone has an opinion and I try to stick with people who are a.) not drinking b.) openminded enough to at least listen to someone else's beliefs in a higher power (or even a lack of one) c.) don't bully or bull**** people d.) are practicing humility e.) living a better life and have changed and they have to be real.

I am anti-group, I don't do well in groups and I hate cliques with a passion. They're hurtful. I don't go to meetings all the time but I do practice a mix of buddhism and native american spirituality. Works for me and I don't care what people think.

AA is not for everyone - just the people who want to do it. I hated AA for years and I hated everything they stood for - until I got desperate and was willing to even do AA (and I'm a passive aggressive ***** on wheels with a mean streak that just gets worse when I drink and use)

do I credit A A for everything in my life - nah. Has it helped with everything, yep. Do I think it's a cult and I'm brainwashed... no, because a cult has a leader that holds the power and information from its followers and my brain...well it needed washing with something other than the whiskey I was soaking it in.

This book and AA was written in late 1930's and you're right, it doesn't really pay attention to the physical but we know so much more now so I think it should be added...I don't know if we had obesity back in the 30's? the way we have it now?

AA has zealots in it certainly...I have learned to avoid them. I'm kind to them because they're human but I avoid them.

I don't know why I responded... AA doesn't need defense but I felt like I should pipe up. When I tried to get help for my pill addiction in AA I was shunned in public and we won't even go there about when I tried to get help for my bipolar when I was diagnosed...but certain people took me aside and told me about Pills Anonymous and some told me of their own struggles with bipolar and I have built an amazing kickass support system built on these people.

I pass a cemetery, a bar and a treatment center on my way to my usual meeting places and if it weren't for AA I'd be in one of those 3 places. AA isn't for everyone but it is for me.

Do I scream it to everyone that AA is the best thing on the planet? nah I don't think that is proper either but I do suggest it because sometimes people just don't know about it or have wierd ideas about it...

To each their own I guess - and, as usual I have written too much...sorry about that ;)

Peace
Binda

Thanks everyone for the replies, and especially Binda thanks for taking the time to say all of that.=)

I get confused with the concept.  If I am powerless, doesn't that mean I'm unable to stop? But I am the one lifting the glass, taking the pill, eating the donut.  So how does that work?

And then the biggest confusion of all for me on the alcohol front - how is it a "disease"?  It just doesn't seem that it is a true disease, in the sense that cancer, diabetes, hell - even bipolar, are diseases.  Nobody asked for any of those things and would do anything to halt their progression.  How does alcoholism fit in here?  Nobody I've ever met has had a gun held to their head and was forced to drink/use/overeat/whatever.

I understand compulsion from lots of first hand experience.  I have what could be called an addictive personality, in that it's very easy for me to fall into habits/behaviors/eating and then allow destructive patterns to develop which I  have to in turn pull myself out of (which in the end always feels worse than having teeth extracted without novacaine).  Sometimes the psych docs say it is a manifestation of my bi-polar or dissociative disorders.   *****ally knows?

I just don't understand the leap to disease, or the powerlessness concept, when all of these actions are, in the end, voluntary.

Any thoughts?

Step 1 is simply this

Admitted that we were powerless over ______________ and that our lives had become unmanagable.

I have had no power to stop on my own. I tried to be a good girl and take pills only when prescribed, drink just 1 drink at parties and one donut..pffftttt please - never happened.

Me myself and I tried doing the math, trying to control that amount and the place and time...I suck at math in more ways than one.

I can't stop by myself - that is what it means.

I traded my higher power of alcohol/pills/food for a different higher power - whatever makes the wind blow or I just call him/her/it "god" because it just makes it easier.

the disease is 2 parts

mind and body

Mind = I can't stop thinking about it - the big mac, the beer, the vicodin - get it? The obssession stays there even when I try to think about other things, stay busy doing other things, nothing makes it go away. 

The only thing that makes it go away...is if I eat the big mac, drink the beer or take a vicodin...and that is what leads us to the other part of the disease ..."body"

Dr. Silkworth describes the "body" part of the disease as an allergy - once I get some, I want more.

I don't know about you but once I ate the big mac, drank the beer or took the vicodin I wanted more. My brain had a taste of it and now it's on...1 is good, 2 is great and when nobody is looking, I hang my head in shame and eat more, drink more and take more pills than anyone ever realizes...

Vicious vicious cycle.

For some they have taken the word Disease

and they did this

Dis/Ease

meaning they are ill at ease

It's common for people with addictions to have a sense of not belonging, not fitting in, extreme loneliness, and most of all...feeling different than ______________ (everyone else basically)

It's when I got to AA and PA and OA (well not OA anymore because it just wasn't for me) and I heard about the guilt, the shame, the self loathing and the crap they did in secret and the the levels of dispair their addiction took them too...and I saw I wasn't alone and I had some hope (gee if they can do it maybe I can too?) then my life really started to change.

First I had to do Step 1 - I had to admit that my drugs/drinking/food/smoking  were my gods, I worshipped them daily, hourly and for smoking...many times an hour

Addiction is a disease like no other. I don't know of diabetes causing heartbreak in the family or robbing houses to support their habit and cancer falls into it's own hell. I have bipolar, it's so much fun (I'm being sarcastic) I can't stay sober without my psych meds and I can't stay stable without going to meetings and it's taken me a long time to learn all of this - I'm also a Certified Drug and Alcohol specialist/counselor....I hungered for information on what ailed me.

And as for the gun to the head pic - I'm not responsible for having an predisposition to addiction or mental illness...it's not my fault. It's a bundle of wonderful neurotransmitters and some behavioral (read; family dysfunction at its finest) and quirky brain wiring that I have been given by my parents and my parents got it from their parents...so, there's no blame....kinda like being handed my beautiful blue eyes from the family tree. :)

BUT, even though it's not my fault I'm wired differently than everyone else...it's my responsiblity to get help and work my ass off at getting better.

12 step isn't for everyone and I totally understand people who don't think it's for them...

Hope this helps.

Peace
Binda

I'm with Jackie. I am my own higher power.

There are a ton of addicts in my family, mostly to alcohol but also drugs. AA/NA has helped some of them but I see a lot of them trade one addiction for another or, if they manage to remain sober, they still engage in many of the less than optimal behaviors that they engaged in when using.

I have never been addicted to anything; sometimes I think it's just an accident of genetics and other times I think it's because of my own strengths. But, because of that, OA never had any appeal to me when I was struggling with my weight. This was even when I did believe in a higher power, which now I don't.

 I thought down the road I would be interested in OA but after reading all these comments I know it isn't for me.