In defense of vets/ carb police...etc

I wonder if you have any clue how many phone calls and private messages some of these people get and take the time to respond to? They are not paid. They have busy, full, rich rewarding careers and families....

so, why do they do it?

To get attention? Popularity? To push their personal agenda? Why?

knowing some of them personally it's because they care about paying it forward, because someone helped them when they were new. They got to goal, and would like for you to get to goal. No hidden agendas, no paid endorsements.

Really.. If your road is longer and bumpier, if you decide to go slow or fast to goal, they will be fine and move on. I see numerous posts saying " this is my truth, take what you like and go on" , yet they are repeatedly based for shoving some dogma down people's throats. I don't get it.

Thise of you that are so threatened by the low carb approach...why? If is is the statistically most likely way to get success for MOST people...even if you got to goal one much higher carb plan, maybe preaching low carb is okay becaus MOST people have better luck with that approach and there is research to back that up, especially for people who have insulin resistance and or had diabetes.

I am a Cirangle patient...he does not sponsor this board, he merely advertises here as do surgeons from Mexico. I am not a superstar... Because I keep falling OFF the low carb band wagon. I am almost 50, had type 2 diabetes, and am in periomenopause. I stall all the time, have barely lost for two months, because I have gotten closer to 60 carbs and 800-1000 calories, even though I do a good hour on the treadmill most days.

i don't think it was a ******g contest.. I think one side feels very compelled to give what they feel is accurate information to the masses, what will work for most. The fact that a siz foot two woman had results and caloric needs more closely to that of your average male and did fine, is great for her, but does not transpose well to the average 5.2-5.5 woman.

I am 20 pounds from goal because I have experimented and screwed around, whereas counterpart patients who have not are down 90-110 to my 70.

I don't know the motivation of the okay, eat more carbs set...but in detail I think they mean veggie carbs not just carbs. I think their agenda is also to help, help those that cannot do the low carb or for whom it doesn't work for, feel,okay with their own path. Well... I will only feel okay with getting to my goal.....and I wish I'd have taken the easier, low carb stick to my plan like glue path because I'd there now.

i don't think certain topics should be brought into the equation, not relevant...but height is relevant. Typically taller people can consummore calories and active people can too.

i think the low carb proponents simply take t hat espousing an okay to eat more carbs ideal to newbies is setting them up to not reach goal, or become more frustrated. My personal experience says, that's the case. Your mileage will vary based upon your medical history age, gender, size.

I do know one thing for certain, intentions are to help, and there has been much selflessness going on there with some vets. Then oneson bashes them and 20 more jump on the bandwagon...why? Jealousy over success? You don't like the message because it's hard to do?

i don't get it...

 

I know that there has been a lot of low and unfair remarks made...and I wonder if you ever really thought about how much time those vets have spent trying to help others, and what possible motivation they may have to keep on trying to do so? I personally would need to get paid to put in such effort to help strangers.

 

I think some are trying to silence those voices, and that will be a real loss to these boards.

Christina

I am not a Cirangle patient. Nor am I the patient of anyone who advertises on this board.  

However, I agree completely with the poster on this topic.  If you ask for advice, you will get advice based on personal experience.  

Have I followed every bit of advice I've ever received on this board?  No, I have not.  

Do I think my weight loss could have been better had I followed that advice to the letter?  Yes, I do.

When I have PM'ed a vet with a question, I have a received a prompt and thoughtful response from these vets.

When I have posted a question or issue, I have received a prompt and thoughtful response from these vets.

If you don't want advice, don't ask for it.  But if you do ask for it, don't complain about getting it.

In the end, each of us controls what we eat, and it's up to us to gather as much information as we can to make the best choices for ourselves.

I appreciate that many experienced people take the time to help others.  I have benefited from their expertise.  

MOST of the time the person asking for advise is not the one complaining. It is others that come in and throw a fit because someone answered a question in a way they feel is wrong. You suggest lowering carbs and someone comes in bashing that person and saying not to listen to them.

I say listen to all of the advise and find what works for you.

Amen,  to the above.  Whatever path we choose, it is good to hear diverse opinions.  I am afraid that some will get tired of posing their opinion when all they get is negativity.  I also worry that others will be afraid to pose honest questions or concerns. I know earlier in my journey I did not ask some questions as I was worried I would get harsh reactions.  Now some will say "be a big girl, what do you expect" BUT everyone is not tough, we are all on our own journey, and should be treated with respect.  

I appreciate that you have a different view, but the behaviors and threads started AFTER the original one were completely unnecessary and it was those actions that have lead to the subsequent backlash, not the original post. If people are going to be first to throw stones, its hardly surprising that a few get thrown back.

Discussion should be allowed on any topic on an open forum without people being attacked, which is exactly what happened to the person who originally posted the article about carbs. The OP was not making any claims about it being a better path, merely her thoughts and experience. However a counter thread was immediately started by one of the vets, that was frankly unecessary. Then another well known vet jumped onto that thread and got stuck into the OP of the first thread on a personal level and blatantly belittled her success.

Honestly, you are doing this as well in this thread by singling her out. She makes no secret of her height, it's in her signature. Perhaps the people who are 5 foot should also be making disclaimers in every one of their posts that what works for someone who is short, may not work so well for someone who is tall.

This is an open forum, with people in different countries, who have different surgeons, different bodies and different plans. Frankly it is disgraceful that people aren't allowed to talk about their own experiences and share their own thoughts without being ostracised or their experiences devalued by people who should know better.

The vets post frequently enough to clearly provide their points of view and beliefs on the best approach for people to read. It should be left at that rather than launching counter-argument threads if someone shares a thought or experience they don't personally agree with.

There is no "one absolute right way" or single path to success as we are all different. If someone reaches out, great, support them. But if they don't, or choose to take a different path than yours, that's fine. Its their journey and not for anyone else to pass judgement on.

Credit readers of this forum with enough intelligence to choose what information they take on board and what information they discard, rather than operating on an assumption that everyone is an idiot that can't find their own balance of truth.

"The vets post frequently enough to clearly provide their points of view and beliefs on the best approach for people to read. It should be left at that rather than launching counter-argument threads if someone shares a thought or experience they don't personally agree with."

Vets, like it or not, by virtue of your tenure in this process and on this board, you ARE in a position of influence here. Please use that power responsibly and wisely.

I Agree and am not trying to single out Happy teacher by commenting she is tall! She knows she is tall are owns it ( so wish I was tall). I really missed the original thread... Started seeing the after math only...

i agree differing points good and should all be respectful... But when one person posts and you then get a gang mentality of " yeah...lets all trash this person..." and I've seen this MANY times in my mere 8 months here...

people can't wait to gang up... I don't get it.

As you said... Simply  state what your truth is, what's worked for you. But the assumption that keeps being flung about pushing an agenda is r

Idiculous on both sides, people just feel passionate about sharing their truth, both sides are motivated by trying to help! Happy teacher has some very real concerns about newbies getting too obsessed and not being healthy, Elina and Frisco have counseled lots of people stuck after not low carving...

I respect both opinions, but weigh in that nothing but low carb works for me, unfortunately... But I'm not talking about carbs from brocoli!!

Christina

Christina,

I respectfully disagree that you have indeed intentionally singled me out.  I can handle people disagreeing with me though.  I am a little irritated, however, that you start an entire thread essentially slandering me- and really?  YOU DIDN'T EVEN READ THE ORIGINAL POST!  Are you freaking kidding me?  So all of this being singled out is completely based off of the threads that the vets started in response to my post.  I should point out in case you were not aware that these vets have me blocked.  So this means that the sign-out, go into my threads to read them, and then sign in again to create the threads solely geared at bashing me.  And you get that being blocked I can't see them, right?  Unless of course I happen to catch them before I sign in to respond to a post.  So these kind vets that you know IRL?  What exactly is their motivation?  

I am reposting below my original post.  Perhaps you should read that before you start threads about me when you really didn't even know what the original intent was.  (Edited this last sentence.  I am the typo queen.) 

So how do you decide what to do with carbs in your diet?  Most programs would not advocate keeping carbs under 40 grams per day, however, there is a strong pressure on these boards that this is the most reliable path to goal.  So which is it?  I think anyone starting this journey has to take an honest evaluation of what your personal needs are.  For many, keeping carbs under 40 simplifies the process and works.  For others, under 40 is a strong type of unsustainable deprivation that does not allow to develop the skills needed to eat a healthy balanced diet.  Not to mention that it goes against just about all wisdom out there on what a healthy diet is.  I know, I know... people will pipe in that due to our obesity the rules don't apply to us.  Really?  All of a sudden we don't need nutrients and fiber because we are (or were) super fat?  Ridiculous.  For most I suspect, you are somewhere in between low carb and my more generous carb approach (still not considered high carb by the way).  But here is what I have found.

1.  Carbs indeed can trigger cravings and hunger.  I do not dispute this.  My stance, however, is that carbs should be carefully consumed.  For me, 15 carbs at a snack and 30 at a meal.  Too much carb at one time can flood your system with insulin, which stores fat, and triggers hunger and cravings.  Your number may be very different.  My point is to pay attention when you log your food.  I bet you will notice when you have too much at one sitting if you log and look for trends.  Notice how you feel after carbs or lack of carbs and track that for a while.  It is enlightening.  

2.  Suffering from terrible constipation and going low carb?  Yea, you need carbs.  Sure, you could take a pill or some other medicinal intervention.  For me, it makes sense to meet your bodies need through diet and nutrition.  For most folks this means 25 grams or more of fiber per day.  I have found I need 35 grams per day to keep things moving correctly.  I do not eat all of these grams in one sitting, but rather spaced out through the day.  This is true both in maintenance and in my weight loss phase.  

3.  Blood sugar levels.  Pay attention to how you feel.  Are you shaky and perhaps a little mentally foggy?  This may be a blood sugar issue.  When you have say 4 ounces of milk do you feel better?  Yep, blood sugar could be the culprit.  Some folks are able to go under 40 and not have this be an issue.  I can't.  Anything under 60 for sure causes problems, and 60-80 is pretty darn iffy.  But, I am hypoglycemic.  I think everyone has a range that is best for themselves.  Track your food and see if you can find your range.  

4.  Veggies are your friend.  Nobody got fat eating asparagus.  There is no reason to suspect it will derail your weight loss.  You need the nutrients from veggies and fruit and the fiber.  Now perhaps don't sit down and eat 4 cups of pineapple- that will not help.  Look up the glycemic index and choose options that are low on the index.  Keep in mind ripeness of fruit changes the impact on your blood sugar level.  Educate yourself.  

5.  Pay attention to what your program suggests.  Listen to your  nutritionist.  Yea, some of them are not very good.  If you suspect this, find another one.  My nutritionist was exponentially helpful in identifying areas to tweak to make this process more effective and sustainable.  

6.  Not all carbs are good.  Stay away from refined and processed junk, "white" carbs, etc . I don't eat a lot of bread, rice, or pasta.  Once in a while sure, but it is not a regular part of my day.  Veggies and fruit are.  

In all, I made it to goal without any difficulty eating carbs.  I would average about a 100-125 net carbs a day, and spaced out appropriately the majority of time.  When I overdid the carbs, yes indeed it would take a few days to work out of that cycle.  In maintenance, I will occasionally have a few consecutive days of very high carbs (over 225 or so).  Every time my weight will spike by a few pounds, but for sure it seems to be water weight.  I eat clean for a couple a days with exercise (not low calorie) and that spike in weight comes right off.  The carbs will increase glycogyn, and the glycogyn needs water.  Plain and simple.  Lower the carbs a bit, burn off the glycogyn, and this is how people lose several pounds in just a few short days.  But that is not that same as burning fat.  Here is a brief article about glycogyn if interested http://www.livestrong.com/article/307905-glycogen-and-weight -loss/

 

Use your bariatric team that you (or your insurance) paid a chunk of change too.  Use the support services, go to your NUT appointments, exercise.  It works and will lead you to goal.  Learning to eat and manage a healthy diet is priceless.  Best of luck on your journey, Happyteacher.

Oh, and Christina.  For the record.  I am not ticked at you, only irritated.  I truly do not mind when people disagree with my stance. Personally, I think it is very healthy for this board to debate topics like carbs, exercise, nutritionists, etc.  It provides a platform for our newer readers to ponder where they are in their journey and brings up points that they may have not previously considered.  The thought provoking dialogue is what I find most helpful on the site.  So, not ticked.  Just extend the courtesy to at least know what the content is that you are posting about prior to starting the thread.  

For anyone out there- disagree all you want.  But if you block me and post crap about me and I find it, I will respond.  That is some serious BS when that happens to me or anyone else.   Doing things like "blaming" my successful weight loss on my cancer status, my height status, or any other type of personal dig is not cool.  I openly invite you to post your disagreements with me.  If you do, just be a big girl or boy and don't block me so I can at least respond.  Because you know what?  You may actually find that when you disagree with me, I revaluate a point, and agree with you.  Or maybe the dialogue that it triggers will bring up a point that you have not considered.  Or maybe, just maybe somebody else *****ads it may gain from the exchange.  But blocking and then stalking me is so not cool!!